I was listening to a podcast recently where a prominent commentator tried, for hours on end, to explain the true depths of the evil of our elites… The real ones, the ones I shouldn’t even name here… The ones who have laws against identifying them and even now are implicated in countless documented cases of systematic government backed (and explicit or defacto US backed) rape, torture and sexual abuse against civilians and children… into the thousands if not tens of thousands of instances, still ongoing.
“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and thoroughly immoral -- doctrine that 'violence never settles anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms.”
- Lt. Col. Jean V. Dubois ~ Starship Troopers (the book, not the suckass movie)
more so than the movie. definitely. be warned. the book is not long, but it is not an action book. more about character’s rite of passage.
published in 1959. heinlein was a navy academy grad who had flirted around with socialism. it comes through in the book. sort of a look over the shoulder from the future.
there are snippets of the book in the movie, but overall, no, not at all alike. the movie is overly and deliberately campy. even ironic allusions to national socialism in the movie by verhoeven.
It's ok to be mean to the people trying to kill you.
Most of this 'violence is not the answer' comes from idiots posturing their moral superiority. It's a nice veneer over their cowardice.
Let's not forget the enemy is using violence against us EVERY DAY. Cops are the constant threat of their violence. Laws are excuses for the enemy to get violent. Their militaries are built for them to express their violence.
We have been at war all our days; we just did not want to admit that fact.
Funny you should write on this or that I should read it. Just this week after viewing events and weighing our recent past 2020->. We have signed our kids up for bulking up, martial arts and a heavier diet of clean meat. :-) DNA is also having it's way. The government has threatened violence and used violence first as it did in Ottawa during the trucker action. They who single handedly stopped this covid nonsense in canada. They brought home more than the bacon! The government has shorn the sheep and and taught them to be passive while they kick them in the nuts. The self flagellating political correctness will always cause so many men and women to wrongly question all responses in light of it's PC's destructive programming that puts stupidity and dogma before common sense. I can't believe society has allowed themselves to be socially hamstrung to the point of putting themselves in harms way. I don't care if they don't believe anymore, I've seen the results filling up cemeteries. To win this fight the media must be put in it's place and people put faith back in common sense and damn it, they have to be willing to fight for it and for the future of their children they've not killed off yet at the point of the grim reaper's needle.
Any law, any negotiation, any threat, any demand in the political domain ultimately rests on the use of violence. Only the credible threat of violence makes for enforceable demands. Its just that in the so called liberal democracies, there have been layers and layers of nebulous institutions and processes installed to hide this fact. But, as we witness, these clouds of sedation are clearing up, revealing this ever true fact
The hard truth is that you're right. Human nature doesn't change. War, violence, killing, mass murder are the norm. People may not like it, I don't like it. But that doesn't change anything. evil has to be met with violence if that is the only way.
Anyone seriously saying "violence is not the answer" is either a coward, a retard or a traitor, and quite possibly all three. How effective would it be to tell a bully violence is not the answer? He'd punch you in the face and take your lunch money and he would do it every single day because you already told him you will never do anything about it. Honestly, its the most retarded thing I've ever heard and it has to come from people who have no relationship with reality. People who initiate violence, like Leftists, only understand violence. They assume your compassion or eagerness to negotiate or willingness to capitulate are signs of weakness. Which simply means that they can freely continue to commit more violence against you without any fear of retaliation. The Left will never stop oppressing you until they are completely and utterly destroyed.
ANY and EVERY initiation of coercive force against the sovereign freedom of any individual human person may morally be met with the deployment of protective force. And all of the stuff that is going on is an initiation of coercive force—both that which is done by governments and that which is abetted by them. All of it is morally impermissible, and thus technically actionable.
The first question is one of practicality. Flinging oneself in mad opposition to a brick wall does nothing to hurt the brick wall.
The second is one of proportion. Though all actions of governments are violations, some are worse than others. The problem of a city bus driver's salary being extracted by force from innocent people is a problem we must solve, but violence is not the best choice for that. By contrast, there are things that have been done by governments recently that ought to have people in the streets by the millions. But, as you note, they sit and cower instead…or worse, the really pathetic ones actually like the tyranny.
The third is the objective. If the goal is to use violence to impose a new way of life on everyone in a given area, that is not going to work for long. It never does. If, by contrast, a cohort get together and peacefully secede, and then they are subjected to violence from without, they have every right to defend themselves with extreme prejudice. (BTW: Read "Freehold" by Michael Williamson. I think you would love it.)
You are right—just saying "violence is not the answer" is a pathetic, whimpering trope. Lots of things technically deserve to be responded to with protective force (violence). The question in my mind, though, is what will actually bring about the best results.
No, Christopher, I’ve not read that book, but yours is a good recommendation. Thank you. I like KYFHO, it covers all kinds of encroachment and trespass. We should all follow the Golden Rule, and GWYG challenges us to act consistently and symmetrically across the entire spectrum of human interaction, from unconditional love to the most gruesome violence. It is a pragmatic depiction of a moral obligation to replace the “social contract” and similar criminal constructs with personal agreements binding on each representative of power. We all know JustDoingMyJob is immoral, GWYG obliges us to treat that shit personally.
So can we wargame/stress-test it a little bit? Are there any circumstances in which it would not be appropriate, or in which it would violate the NAP (or KYFHO)?
What stopped and irrevocably changed fbi and atf hostage etc policy was the oklahoma bombing, committed by a man who watched them firebomb children at waco. They got the message and their policy changed a few months after
Hard to beat the Saint Crispin's Day speech from Henry V. It's about the hope of living and the privilege of dying. Of course it was written with the benefit of hindsight, knowing who survived the Battle of Agincourt, and thanks in no small part to the English longbow.
“Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.”
The only way I could possibly agree with his conclusion that violence isn't the answer to such things, would be if the reason he gave us that it's not the answer because attempting violence (or probably anything really) against such forces is utterly pointless.
“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and thoroughly immoral -- doctrine that 'violence never settles anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms.”
- Lt. Col. Jean V. Dubois ~ Starship Troopers (the book, not the suckass movie)
I kinda liked Starship Troopers.
Your quoting an imaginary character from a book of fiction... Seriously?
or i’m quoting the author who wrote the book and conceived the dialogue. 😎
also: you’re = you are. your = possessive. 🤓
What an epic quote brother. Do you recommend the entire book?
more so than the movie. definitely. be warned. the book is not long, but it is not an action book. more about character’s rite of passage.
published in 1959. heinlein was a navy academy grad who had flirted around with socialism. it comes through in the book. sort of a look over the shoulder from the future.
So the movie is notting like the book? The premise is very interesting, rites of passage.
there are snippets of the book in the movie, but overall, no, not at all alike. the movie is overly and deliberately campy. even ironic allusions to national socialism in the movie by verhoeven.
still ends everything. applied. implied. threatened. believed. anticipated. fin.
And then what when that is countered and the dagger deployed?
😉 q.e.d.
It's ok to be mean to the people trying to kill you.
Most of this 'violence is not the answer' comes from idiots posturing their moral superiority. It's a nice veneer over their cowardice.
Let's not forget the enemy is using violence against us EVERY DAY. Cops are the constant threat of their violence. Laws are excuses for the enemy to get violent. Their militaries are built for them to express their violence.
We have been at war all our days; we just did not want to admit that fact.
Funny you should write on this or that I should read it. Just this week after viewing events and weighing our recent past 2020->. We have signed our kids up for bulking up, martial arts and a heavier diet of clean meat. :-) DNA is also having it's way. The government has threatened violence and used violence first as it did in Ottawa during the trucker action. They who single handedly stopped this covid nonsense in canada. They brought home more than the bacon! The government has shorn the sheep and and taught them to be passive while they kick them in the nuts. The self flagellating political correctness will always cause so many men and women to wrongly question all responses in light of it's PC's destructive programming that puts stupidity and dogma before common sense. I can't believe society has allowed themselves to be socially hamstrung to the point of putting themselves in harms way. I don't care if they don't believe anymore, I've seen the results filling up cemeteries. To win this fight the media must be put in it's place and people put faith back in common sense and damn it, they have to be willing to fight for it and for the future of their children they've not killed off yet at the point of the grim reaper's needle.
Ditto
Any law, any negotiation, any threat, any demand in the political domain ultimately rests on the use of violence. Only the credible threat of violence makes for enforceable demands. Its just that in the so called liberal democracies, there have been layers and layers of nebulous institutions and processes installed to hide this fact. But, as we witness, these clouds of sedation are clearing up, revealing this ever true fact
The hard truth is that you're right. Human nature doesn't change. War, violence, killing, mass murder are the norm. People may not like it, I don't like it. But that doesn't change anything. evil has to be met with violence if that is the only way.
This goes even beyond human nature, to the underlying game theory itself.
An interesting comment, even if I really don't understand it.
Anyone seriously saying "violence is not the answer" is either a coward, a retard or a traitor, and quite possibly all three. How effective would it be to tell a bully violence is not the answer? He'd punch you in the face and take your lunch money and he would do it every single day because you already told him you will never do anything about it. Honestly, its the most retarded thing I've ever heard and it has to come from people who have no relationship with reality. People who initiate violence, like Leftists, only understand violence. They assume your compassion or eagerness to negotiate or willingness to capitulate are signs of weakness. Which simply means that they can freely continue to commit more violence against you without any fear of retaliation. The Left will never stop oppressing you until they are completely and utterly destroyed.
Ditto
ANY and EVERY initiation of coercive force against the sovereign freedom of any individual human person may morally be met with the deployment of protective force. And all of the stuff that is going on is an initiation of coercive force—both that which is done by governments and that which is abetted by them. All of it is morally impermissible, and thus technically actionable.
The first question is one of practicality. Flinging oneself in mad opposition to a brick wall does nothing to hurt the brick wall.
The second is one of proportion. Though all actions of governments are violations, some are worse than others. The problem of a city bus driver's salary being extracted by force from innocent people is a problem we must solve, but violence is not the best choice for that. By contrast, there are things that have been done by governments recently that ought to have people in the streets by the millions. But, as you note, they sit and cower instead…or worse, the really pathetic ones actually like the tyranny.
The third is the objective. If the goal is to use violence to impose a new way of life on everyone in a given area, that is not going to work for long. It never does. If, by contrast, a cohort get together and peacefully secede, and then they are subjected to violence from without, they have every right to defend themselves with extreme prejudice. (BTW: Read "Freehold" by Michael Williamson. I think you would love it.)
You are right—just saying "violence is not the answer" is a pathetic, whimpering trope. Lots of things technically deserve to be responded to with protective force (violence). The question in my mind, though, is what will actually bring about the best results.
I read FREEHOLD years ago.
I am old, but am hopeful that my children can survive and thrive
I loved "Freehold!"
"I am old, but am hopeful that my children can survive and thrive."
I am, I guess one would call it middle-aged, and I will do all I can!
The simplest expression of justice is "give what you get".
It's catchy, its effectiveness demonstrable, and it should make for awesome slogan memes.
I am partway through the first in the F. Paul Wilson sci-fi book "An Enemy of the State" and I must admit, KYFHO is pretty catchy too…
Have you read it?
No, Christopher, I’ve not read that book, but yours is a good recommendation. Thank you. I like KYFHO, it covers all kinds of encroachment and trespass. We should all follow the Golden Rule, and GWYG challenges us to act consistently and symmetrically across the entire spectrum of human interaction, from unconditional love to the most gruesome violence. It is a pragmatic depiction of a moral obligation to replace the “social contract” and similar criminal constructs with personal agreements binding on each representative of power. We all know JustDoingMyJob is immoral, GWYG obliges us to treat that shit personally.
GWYG. Interesting. Very interesting.
So can we wargame/stress-test it a little bit? Are there any circumstances in which it would not be appropriate, or in which it would violate the NAP (or KYFHO)?
We can inflict pain and suffering on the enemy without violence.
We emulate the Roman plebians, or more recently, the Polish Solidarity.
Strategic industrial and professional verticals stop working for two weeks and they'll beg to give us what we want.
Just two moar weeks
Keep dreamin.
I have nothing to add but glum agreeance.
Don't be glum. Be excited.
The definition of a modern nation state is that it holds a monopoly on violence. This tells you all you need to know .
If you believe violence is never the answer, then you believe there is nothing worth fighting for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiEAz1TDm1c
What stopped and irrevocably changed fbi and atf hostage etc policy was the oklahoma bombing, committed by a man who watched them firebomb children at waco. They got the message and their policy changed a few months after
Hard to beat the Saint Crispin's Day speech from Henry V. It's about the hope of living and the privilege of dying. Of course it was written with the benefit of hindsight, knowing who survived the Battle of Agincourt, and thanks in no small part to the English longbow.
"We few. We happy few. We band of brothers."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvFHRNGYfuo
“now we see the violence inherent in the system!”
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
“Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.”
How's that glass slipper fit you, darling?
Classic Python!
The only way I could possibly agree with his conclusion that violence isn't the answer to such things, would be if the reason he gave us that it's not the answer because attempting violence (or probably anything really) against such forces is utterly pointless.
*checks blackpilled gauge*
"Oof. That's not looking good today."
Hee hee! Reminds me of that nostrum we heard ad nauseum after 9/11:
“ Terrorists never win.”
YEAH they do! They always do.