I will say, if you actually wanted to be able to field motorcycle infantry, you'd massively subsidize production of PW50s or equivalent and the construction of trails and tracks. Especially on dirt, good riders start very young.
I started in my mid 20s and I ya totally agree, I see people stunting and i can't imagine doing it. Mind you I started on a KLR650 and camp off it. So an Anvil with 100lbs strapped to it.
Very interesting take. Back when I was part of the Sheriffs SAR (Search And Rescue) group (Northern Montana) we did use various dirt bikes, but mostly used Quad runners, horses (of course) and several guys had Rokons. These are smallish, 200 lb. or so weight wise, full time front & rear drive bikes (instead of just the rear wheel). Only have a maximum speed (3rd gear) of 35 mph (56kph), but were incredibly maneuverable in the typical thick forests & woodlands we would have to search. One of the guys had welded a front frame extension for a powered winch, so were very few places he couldn’t go. Rokons can carry a lot of weight too (they even offer a ‘side car’, as well as a one wheel trailer). If allowed, here’s a link for the website for better information. https://rokon.com/
Thankyou! And thanks a ton for writing the thread that inspired me! I'd been thinking a ton about this stuff after a big cross-country dual-sport trip i did... and that thread just lit something in my imagination.
I've had a number of sequels buried in my drafts that I've been meaning to finish up... one on other unconventional modes of warfare people don't talk about, and a more direct sequel about the actual tactics and strategies you could employ with dedicated motorcycle units... need you finally polish them off and get them out
That's awesome, I hope you wind up publishing them!
I've also been thinking a lot about how you would use the motorcycle units. What I think might be a very useful tactic for them is to have the riders carrying mortar launched drones/loitering munitions. You could use your stealth and speed to get to places the enemy wouldn't expect (preferably behind their lines), and then you would have a multiple mile radius in which you could attack without the enemy even knowing you were there.
There are also pretty nifty helmet-integrated headsets, that can connect to up to 1km towards 2 to 5 other riders, right. Not too expensive. Also you can use something like Google Maps GPS live tracking feature to see all your friends on the built-in zoomable display.
«There have been some experiments with electric and hybrid electric bikes for special forces, that switch to much more silent electric motors for the final close in with the enemy… But so far I haven’t heard much about anyone having great operational coups with them.»
I could see motorbike dragoons being useful in combination with drones. Think like a mongol falconer out on the steppe, he releases the bird for a while and watches it's movements, then decides where to ride accordingly.
The bikes ensure the operator can always remain in line of sight and that the drone has somewhere to recharge/reload. The drones ensure the bikers never blunder into an ambush and have a decent idea of where to go next.
Greatly appreciate your content and thanks for referring your twitter followers back to this masterpiece. This and your thread on megacities as a military challenge are directly informing some of my own modest writing efforts.
One day I would love to see you elaborate on this analysis in a hypothetical North American WROL scenario -- although there is a lot implicit in what you have already provided here. Fuel economy of motorbikes in context of scarcity could be a decisive advantage, along with all the others you detail here.
I have 4 letters to answer your article on bikes for military use - GPMG. You've done a lot of research but ignored something important - bikers are exposed. Thus, vulnerable to automatic firearms as much as dismounted infantry. Also, vulnerable to anti-personnel mines and any other small arms out there. I just have to set up my machineguns right and your bikers will be dropping like flies. And as can be seen on one of the photos you provided, a general-purpose machinegun can easily fit on the same bike as three humans. Common weapon these days, with a reinforced barrel so it can shoot on full auto a whole lot. There are reasons why light trucks with heavy machineguns are popular among economically-disadvantaged militias as combat vehicles, and bikes not so much. Bikes are good for transport across rough terrain, for the special forces, in a scenario where literally no other vehicle is available. It's a skeleton of a two-wheeler with no protection for the rider whatsoever. In other words, no combat applications are possible for a bike. Transporting supplies in difficult terrain on a small scale sure, but the possible uses are simply too limited.
A toyota tacoma at least has an engine block and can be outfitted with steel plates to stop schrapnel and 7.62x39mm...
This limits the application, not the effectiveness.
There are tons of roles for unmounted infantry which are just as exposed... the power of bikes is they're so speedy, stealthy and versatile, you could place 10-20 infantry soldiers just about anywhere have them do some real damage, and then have them out before your opponent can really respond.
Right now SPEC OPs type missions that McRaven isolates in his book in his book of that name, are really limited to very highly trained men going after very highly valuable targets... but the thing is there's nothing inherent about these missions that are that complex in principle... they're hit and run missions, your average methed out bank robber is doing the same thing from a conceptual standpoint.
So another army more willing to accept casuallties, could have hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of these missions happening every quarter or so in a campaign, against increasingly lower value targets that because they're lower value and less defended, therefore lower trained units can hit them....
You do this across not just the enemy front, but the eney rear, and that could represent 10s if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers they might have to tie down just in security... then you have the more trained of your strike teams actually attacking the weaker points of that securtity
Dude, this is pretty sick.
I will say, if you actually wanted to be able to field motorcycle infantry, you'd massively subsidize production of PW50s or equivalent and the construction of trails and tracks. Especially on dirt, good riders start very young.
I started in my mid 20s and I ya totally agree, I see people stunting and i can't imagine doing it. Mind you I started on a KLR650 and camp off it. So an Anvil with 100lbs strapped to it.
Just another way in which motorcycle troops are the old horsemen of yore.
This is a truly phenomenal post well done
Very interesting take. Back when I was part of the Sheriffs SAR (Search And Rescue) group (Northern Montana) we did use various dirt bikes, but mostly used Quad runners, horses (of course) and several guys had Rokons. These are smallish, 200 lb. or so weight wise, full time front & rear drive bikes (instead of just the rear wheel). Only have a maximum speed (3rd gear) of 35 mph (56kph), but were incredibly maneuverable in the typical thick forests & woodlands we would have to search. One of the guys had welded a front frame extension for a powered winch, so were very few places he couldn’t go. Rokons can carry a lot of weight too (they even offer a ‘side car’, as well as a one wheel trailer). If allowed, here’s a link for the website for better information. https://rokon.com/
I had to re-read this essay a year on after my thread, and holy hell, you really knocked it out of the park.
Thankyou! And thanks a ton for writing the thread that inspired me! I'd been thinking a ton about this stuff after a big cross-country dual-sport trip i did... and that thread just lit something in my imagination.
I've had a number of sequels buried in my drafts that I've been meaning to finish up... one on other unconventional modes of warfare people don't talk about, and a more direct sequel about the actual tactics and strategies you could employ with dedicated motorcycle units... need you finally polish them off and get them out
That's awesome, I hope you wind up publishing them!
I've also been thinking a lot about how you would use the motorcycle units. What I think might be a very useful tactic for them is to have the riders carrying mortar launched drones/loitering munitions. You could use your stealth and speed to get to places the enemy wouldn't expect (preferably behind their lines), and then you would have a multiple mile radius in which you could attack without the enemy even knowing you were there.
Great post: I learned a lot about asymmetrical warfare here
You should read "Blitzkrieg" by Len Deighton. He absolutely condemns the use of motorcycles in that war, and gives a list of reasons.
ridden motorbikes a little and horses a bit more. on a bike one must spend every moment navigating; the horse generally knows where you are going.
There are also pretty nifty helmet-integrated headsets, that can connect to up to 1km towards 2 to 5 other riders, right. Not too expensive. Also you can use something like Google Maps GPS live tracking feature to see all your friends on the built-in zoomable display.
«There have been some experiments with electric and hybrid electric bikes for special forces, that switch to much more silent electric motors for the final close in with the enemy… But so far I haven’t heard much about anyone having great operational coups with them.»
Exactly :)
I could see motorbike dragoons being useful in combination with drones. Think like a mongol falconer out on the steppe, he releases the bird for a while and watches it's movements, then decides where to ride accordingly.
The bikes ensure the operator can always remain in line of sight and that the drone has somewhere to recharge/reload. The drones ensure the bikers never blunder into an ambush and have a decent idea of where to go next.
what about weaponized emf
https://youtu.be/kyLIl6Ji96U
I Bought a Diesel Dirtbike from the Marine Corps(1 of 214)
Bikes and Beards
1.87M subscribers
Really curious as to how you feel this article has dated in light of what's been happening in the Ukraine War?
Great post. Noticed it says waste deep instead of waist deep, but it's an interesting image to ford a river of waste.
Greatly appreciate your content and thanks for referring your twitter followers back to this masterpiece. This and your thread on megacities as a military challenge are directly informing some of my own modest writing efforts.
One day I would love to see you elaborate on this analysis in a hypothetical North American WROL scenario -- although there is a lot implicit in what you have already provided here. Fuel economy of motorbikes in context of scarcity could be a decisive advantage, along with all the others you detail here.
I have 4 letters to answer your article on bikes for military use - GPMG. You've done a lot of research but ignored something important - bikers are exposed. Thus, vulnerable to automatic firearms as much as dismounted infantry. Also, vulnerable to anti-personnel mines and any other small arms out there. I just have to set up my machineguns right and your bikers will be dropping like flies. And as can be seen on one of the photos you provided, a general-purpose machinegun can easily fit on the same bike as three humans. Common weapon these days, with a reinforced barrel so it can shoot on full auto a whole lot. There are reasons why light trucks with heavy machineguns are popular among economically-disadvantaged militias as combat vehicles, and bikes not so much. Bikes are good for transport across rough terrain, for the special forces, in a scenario where literally no other vehicle is available. It's a skeleton of a two-wheeler with no protection for the rider whatsoever. In other words, no combat applications are possible for a bike. Transporting supplies in difficult terrain on a small scale sure, but the possible uses are simply too limited.
A toyota tacoma at least has an engine block and can be outfitted with steel plates to stop schrapnel and 7.62x39mm...
This limits the application, not the effectiveness.
There are tons of roles for unmounted infantry which are just as exposed... the power of bikes is they're so speedy, stealthy and versatile, you could place 10-20 infantry soldiers just about anywhere have them do some real damage, and then have them out before your opponent can really respond.
Right now SPEC OPs type missions that McRaven isolates in his book in his book of that name, are really limited to very highly trained men going after very highly valuable targets... but the thing is there's nothing inherent about these missions that are that complex in principle... they're hit and run missions, your average methed out bank robber is doing the same thing from a conceptual standpoint.
So another army more willing to accept casuallties, could have hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of these missions happening every quarter or so in a campaign, against increasingly lower value targets that because they're lower value and less defended, therefore lower trained units can hit them....
You do this across not just the enemy front, but the eney rear, and that could represent 10s if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers they might have to tie down just in security... then you have the more trained of your strike teams actually attacking the weaker points of that securtity
Bravo