The Holocaust story doesn't appear to be accurate in the first place. Yes jews were persecuted in Germany, yes many were put into camps and yes many of them died in these camps, but it does not appear that there was an organized, planned, top-down effort to kill jews at these camps. The best estimate, based on facts and evidence, is that less than 500,000 jews died in these camps--mostly from typhus and other illnesses apparently.
I think the Holocaust story was created, in part, to distract people from the TENS OF MILLIONS of Christians that the jewish Bolshevisks shot, starved and tortured to death in Russia and Ukraine.
I had never looked into the Holocaust story until recently. I was shocked to discover that it is mostly a hoax. It is sickening to me that this lie is still being pushed on us, but I understand how useful and financially rewarding this story is to the chosenites.
The real question is: when will there be no more 'holocaust' survivors still alive to talk about it? Already it's starting to stretch the imagination with the youngest possible survivors who could remember it being no less than 86.
a good question is why didn't they kill them on the spot? They opted for trains and remote locations. Much money. At least, non-proponents of revisionism should have the honesty of looking at "slavery" rather than "extermination"
The argument is that they wanted to keep it a secret and because mass executions were traumatising the troops detailed to carry them out.
But the same people claim that German troops were openly bayonetting jewish infants for fun and using them for target practice, so who knows how that's supposed to work.
Even more curious are the extremely convoluted machines and buildings they supposedly constructed to kill them. We're told they did it because it was more efficient, but every horror story they came up with is provably less efficient than just using a bullet and many of them break the laws of physics.
<<"It's horrible anti-semitism is rising so much, all that holocaust education and kids are still choosing evil"
Anti-semitism is rising BECAUSE of all this Holocaust Education!>>
That's it, right there. The most pure and perfect distillation of the situation. The ADL is single-handedly creating more anti-semitism than the Nazis could have ever dreamed of doing.
Were it not for 6 years of holocaust education... kids would not ask "why do we study this specific atrocity for 2 months a year for years on end when the Armenian and Rwandan genocide both happened and no one seems to care?"
Which is why Germany exacted the toll they did from them and have been kept on their knees ever since , pity they lost. The Americans are not as smart as the Germans were and don't even know who their masters are. I have understood all of this for decades . Try telling you family members and acquaintances about it and see how far you get. The Holohoax has been the largest , most pervasive and successful propaganda campaign in history , so watcha gunna do about it?
and the present global crackdown on free speech in the five eyes is at root about containing this truth. Now that a percentage of the population are anti-semites , muslims that is , there is a need to prevent their intense dislike from spreading to the general populace. The thought of a populist leader rising through social media that would tell this story and open folk's eyes is the ultimate nightmare of the parasite. Think the old black and white movies of Adolf and a two hundred thousand strong crowd of all white all christian populace bent on getting free from the overlord. That is what haunts the elites more than any other image. It is part of the reason why Trump has been treated so harshly by the deep state. Even though he is completely in the Jewish Cabad it is not the Chabad faction that holds power Trumps Jews are pro Russia whilst the deep state Jews are pro Ukraine , that is why populate leaders of any stripe cannot be tolerated . The "leaders" must all be selected and approved of by the ruling class.
I'm part Jewish myself and I really don't like the Holocaust being the US civic religion.
Why do we have so many Holocaust museums here when it all happened over there? And why nothing for the much larger number of people killed by communists in Eastern Europe, China, and Cambodia?
Someone once pointed out that Nazis are frequently the bad guys in movies, but communists never are. I think that's true. At least I can't remember any movie where a communist is the bad guy.
Tortured for Christ is about the Soviet occupation of Romania, communism is the bad guy. In the original Red
Dawn (the only one worth watching or remembering) the invading force are commies. The Hunt for Red October, a Soviet is the good guy because he’s defecting against communism. Indiana Jones 4. Pretty much any movie about the Vietnam War. The Manchurian Candidate. A lot of spy movies are set during the Cold War and the Soviets are part of team bad guy in a most of them even if the ultimate big bad is some shadowy organization that isn’t particularly communist. The Death of Stalin. Invasion USA. Big Jim McClain. Red Scorpion.
Almost all the movies where soviets are the bad guys are set in the late cold war. And even then it's usually couched in a suggestion that they're a corrupted version of a virtuous original.
I can only think of one or two movies set prior to the 60s where they're the bad guys.
Thanks for stating all this so clearly. I have had some similar thoughts but you have connected the dots much better than I could have. I am sick to death of their entire shtick: the takeover and perversion of our institutions, the censorship of our opinions, the assault on our Christian faith, the holocaust hoax, the boosterism toward sexual degeneracy and socialism…etc etc ad nauseam. How do we get this bloated tick off our backs and reclaim our birthright?
THe allegation is a genocide started in Gaza, following oct 7th, no one alleges that the apartheid in the West Bank has amounted to genocide.
The accusation is the war in Gaza has the objective of killing civillians and ethnic cleansing as evidence by the fact 10% of the pre-war civilian population has died in under a year. A faster rate than was even alleged for the holocaust.
1) clearly those death numbers are inflated, you’d be foolish to believe them
2) yes, Israel does want to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. It’s the only way ever to solve this problem permanently. Either they or the Palestinians must clear out. A time-tested and historically-successful method of ending ethnic strife.
But dollars to donuts they do it by economic constriction and quasi-forced migration, not mass murder. You’re a healthily cynical, realistic guy - let’s not indulge in the shrill leftist caterwauling of throwing around the word “genocide”, if only as a matter of self-respect.
Those death numbers line up really well with the trendline of what was being reported before the recording authorities in Gaza were themselves killed.
30k were dead in Gaza in January, then that number just creeped up even as the campaigns intensified and the diseases became more extreme, because the hospitals had all been bombed and no one was left to record the dead and report them.
The 200k figure included starvation and disease deaths... which seems very relevant when we compare the holocaust where everyone who died of starvation, lack of medical care, disease, etc. is considered the equivalent of direct murder.
The Nazi holocaust against Jewish citizens was horrible.
But they must have been really bad at it, no?
From the 1950s through 2010 or so (when they pretty much all died off), how often did you hear about a "Holocaust survivor" complete with tatooed number on his/her forearm, telling their tale in Miami Beach, or Cleveland, or LA, or New York?
There were thousands of these newspaper and TV stories, movies, documentaries. Constant stream of "Holocaust survivors" telling their stories. For every one who told their story in the newspaper, there must have been hundreds or thousands who didn't get in the news.
So, just in the USA, there were hundreds of thousands of "Holocaust survivors."
For such an efficient killing machine, the Nazis sure did leave a lot of "survivors," didn't they?
Not only that, but a significant number of them claim to have been born in the maternity ward of the death camp. You heard that right, the so called death camp had a maternity ward where the group being exterminated were allowed to increase their numbers.
Most official counts have 3 million surviving Jews in Europe at the end of the war. It’s understandable that many would not want to remain in Europe all things considered. According to official records about 140,000 Holocaust survivors immigrated to the U.S. which seems like a reasonable number all things considered. If you believe the data, Europe had 9 million Jews before the war and 3 million after. Areas under Nazi control like Kiev Ukraine went from a Jewish population of over 200,000 to practically nonexistent. Nazis were damn efficient there. (Not that they limited their targets to Jews, they killed somewhere between 25-50% of the Roma in Europe too.) A nearly 70% reduction of Jews on the continent and 90%+ reduction in various occupied areas is pretty efficient.
I don't believe those numbers. Other figures suggest there were roughly 4 million jews before the war and 4.5 million after, but setting that aside, why did the death camps have maternity wards? Why adopt such inefficient and cartoonish methods of execution, like death-rollercoasters, electric vaporisation rooms and masturbation machines? And if we reject those stories as obvious fantasy then why are we believing the stories about gas chambers?
None of it adds up.
If the nazis had actually wanted to kill that many jews they would have done what the soviets did and shot them. But that would leave behind enormous mass graves that could be exhumed and verified. Instead we have a story that's highly improbably but conveniently leaves behind no physical evidence. We just have to take their word for it.
Most people killed in the Holocaust were not tattooed, they died in ghettos or were shot or gassed. Tattooing was the practice in camps that selected some of the arrivals for slave labour, most notably Auschwitz. Most were gassed on arrival sans tattoo. Other camps, like Treblinka, Sobibor and Belcec, were purely death camps. Those three are far less famous because almost nobody survived them, although there is extensive witness testimony and Deutsche Reichsbahn documentary evidence of their operations. Thousands of people survived Auschwitz, with their tattoos, because it was a combination extermination and labour camp that was liberated while it was still in operation. The Nazis had set themselves a target of 11 million that they didn’t have time to reach before they were defeated, and so there were actually millions of Jews who survived the Nazi regime in one way or another, mostly outside of the camp system, and of course without tattoos.
> Those three are far less famous because almost nobody survived them
All three have many alleged survivors. Some of them claim to have escaped the gas chamber by faking illness and going to the infirmary instead or moonwalking back out under the guards noses (yes seriously).
All I can conclude is that if there was an extermination effort it was overseen by the most incompetent people ever to walk the earth.
About 167 between them to Auschwitz’s thousands of survivors, and to the about two million who were gassed there. So, almost nobody. Silly anecdotes repeated by Holocaust deniers are a red herring and they always will be, like the Piltdown Man to creationists.
The Nazis shot plenty too. During the occupation of Kiev they shot around 100,000 people (of various backgrounds) and used a ravine as a mass grave although ultimately most of those bodies were burned. Perhaps there was concern that while many people were fine with their neighbors being deported they would be less fine with them being shot. So they were moved away from potentially sympathetic neighbors prior to being killed.
Historically there are a variety of reasons to take prisoners; slave labor, as insurance against the use of certain weapons or tactics, for exchange for their own prisoners, or to use as pressure during negotiations with enemy parties. So you take a bunch of people captive. You ship them off so their neighbors think they are just going somewhere else. Then you kill those incapable of work and use the rest as slave labor. You try and feed and clothe them just enough to keep them alive and when shortages come they are the first to get shorted . Those who get too sick, cause problems, or otherwise are a burden also get killed. Maybe then when the end is near you try to destroy all the evidence. If you have prisoners and slaves you want to keep track of them and numbers are the most efficient way to do that.
The current mythos surrounding the camps is inaccurate but the Nazis still killed a hell of a lot of people both inside and outside the camps.
Because the efficient killing machine was only in place for 18 months. The actual death (extermination) camps ran mid-1942 to the end of 1943. Then it was slowly starved slave labor in the camps. But that's not as dramatic as "Grandpa stopped the Nazis from gassing people!"
Why would they go to all that effort setting up an extermination camp just to shut it down again almost immediately after?
And that creates even more plot holes given that, even if we assume the ovens worked constantly for the entire duration of the war, they still didn't have enough time to cremate all the bodies alleged to have been burned.
There were those opponents of the camps being constructed, saying the German war effort needed the labor. It took about 18 months to prove them right.
And they didn't cremate 6 million bodies as is often implied, less than a 1/3 of that at most. Those killed by the Eistanzgruppen were buried in mass graves, as were those who killed before Barbarossa.
Where are these "mass graves" located? By your calculations there should be 4 million bodies buried somewhere. That's a LOT of skeletons no one has found.
Probably "only" 4 million killed. Your typical mass graves is maybe a few dozen people. So they're scattered around, and a lot not found or reused by the Soviets.
I couldn’t find any information on mass graves around Kiev attributed to Germans/holocaust although there were some sites related to Soviet/Russia. Can you be more specific?
Even two million cremations is impossible in 18 months, that's over 150 bodies per hour assuming they were working around the clock. No mass graves have been found on that scale.
And why would it help them to shut down the camps *after* they had been constructed?
Like I posted l, labor shortages. Get some uniforms made by people who are slowly starving to death is better than killing quick, and not getting the uniforms.
So they were absolutely dedicated to eradicating these people they saw as an existential threat, but they stopped because they couldn't find enough people to sew uniforms? Please.
And you still have to account for the conspicuous absence of four million bodies and their cremation ovens breaking the laws of physics to dispose of the other two million.
/Pol/s razor: if it was as bad as they say it was, why do they treat western Europeans so badly? Hundreds of Thousands of American kids died in liberating the Jews from the camps, why do they seem to despise American white people? Alternatively, if it wasn't as bad as they said, and they've been lying now for over 60 years... does that not bring into question whether or not removal was, in fact, necessary?
So you are saying we need more holocaust education? Perhaps give it a more positive slant this time around, pointing out the many benefits of a good old fashioned ethnic cleansing.
Yes the level of indoctrination has slipped as media has become more diverse. However the new indoctrination programs will not succeed like in the past because of the media diversity and the time factor. I was indoctrinated in the fifties by the Readers Digest . That was one of the three media we kids had. One was the nightly news on the radio , the Reader's Digest my father had subscribed to.and comic books which were mostly WW 2 stories. The Holohoax was still relatively fresh and new , the war had only been over for ten years and was very real for us,. Contrast that to day where the kids know nothing about history and don't care or want to know and the media field is so high , so extensive that it is mind boggling. So the new propaganda programs will have limited effect. Hence the need to turn the screws on all media that is not following the narrative of the parasite.
Well, this is a refreshing take. I have another spin. I am Jewish and for the sake of argument, we own you, so get over it. However. Jews have a somewhat unique demographic issue. While the fastest growing religion in the USA is "None," Jews marry later, intermarry and have fewer children. Except ultra-orthodox, many of whom believe that the state of Israel cannot come into existence before the arrival of the Messiah. The first time. Jesus screwed up if he has to come back to Maggido and fight for a thousand years. Sounds like the Magic Plates or every other religion's bullshit, but I digress. That doesn't prevent a million or three from living there and sucking off the teat of the Israeli welfare state. They have seven plus kids. In 100 years, there will still be six million Jews in the US. 90% will be Orthodox, who mainly want to live in their shtetels, like Monsey, run the school board and impose their will on everyone else, just like everyone else.
Now, on to my point. There's an old saying that there's no business like Shoah business. Ask Kate Winslet in Ricky Gervais' hilarious show, "Extras." The point I make is that nobody gives a shit about the holocaust, and no Jew ever moved anywhere because they have a huge museum dedicated to killing of Jews. That's a WOFTAM. Gentiles hate us as Kulakski shows. If Jews really want to survive, they should quit begging Gentiles for money for museums and "education" because we'd be in the ovens in a New York Minute if some (many) people got their way. That money should be used to build day schools, take kids to Israel, a shitty 8,000 sq/mi country that is the source of all evil in the world, ask any ZH reader.
Islam wants to kill you too, or force you to convert, live as Dhimmi, pay Jizyat and live as second class wards of the state. You are Kuffir and believe or die. watch Germany, France, England, Sweden, and Italy implode when their Muslim population reaches about 20%. Stay tuned. These idiots protesting on campuses will all be gang raped and subjugated when Allah really comes into their lives. And yours.
Seriously a lot of this anti semitism is a stupidity Europe and now the US can’t afford. I’m not Jewish but it’s not the white, smart, family oriented migrants in the US that worry me - even if like any newcomer some integrate within middle management & above government ranks. They are playing a game written by gentile Europeans anyways. If you aren’t libertarian for starters you probably ought to pipe down on who is in the bureaucratic class. But on an ethnic level, it’s the ones with half the IQ, taught that we are all infidels that concern me.
I grew up in the 80s; by then the Holocaust mythology was already well under way, but all we had was Anne Frank. (Maus and Night were new, not taught yet.) You could also openly say at that time, “This story sounds, like, totally fake.”
Holy hell, by the time my children got to their Legends of the Holocaust lessons, it had really exploded into an entire grievance industry. And nobody was allowed to question any of it—in a school and town completely devoid of people likely to be offended by the questioning of it.
And now WWII itself has become “Holocaust as the Main Character.”
This and other recent events are causing me to ask what in the hell is going on. Something seriously weird is afoot.
I have PTSD (ok not really) from being forced to read Holocaust books in school which it turns out were full of lies. So when they wanted my kids to read and watch even worse Holocaust lies in school, I pulled them out and explained why. The school staff didn’t even realise they were peddling lies as facts. They were reassuringly embarrassed.
They have definitely pushed WAY too hard with the grievance narrative. All it takes is a reasonable look at history for even a highschool kid to say "but why do we listen to them when the Armenian and Bolshevik ethnic cleansings took place?" What's bizarre is how they get progressively more extreme in their claims to the point of holocoasters and looney toons shotguns. It's a constant one-upsmanship to see what bizarre yarn they can spin and have believed. The ultimate result is that the general population, including the progressives, have turned on the Jewish people across the West. Suppressing the people won't prevent them from hating you, it'll just make them do it quietly. A lot of Jewish individuals who are tuned in seem to be making egress plans as the West is not likely to be a safe place for them in a generation or two.
The Holocaust story doesn't appear to be accurate in the first place. Yes jews were persecuted in Germany, yes many were put into camps and yes many of them died in these camps, but it does not appear that there was an organized, planned, top-down effort to kill jews at these camps. The best estimate, based on facts and evidence, is that less than 500,000 jews died in these camps--mostly from typhus and other illnesses apparently.
I think the Holocaust story was created, in part, to distract people from the TENS OF MILLIONS of Christians that the jewish Bolshevisks shot, starved and tortured to death in Russia and Ukraine.
The Holocaust
https://binkylarue.substack.com/p/the-holocaust
According to the German red cross there were 50,000 deaths in the camps, which is consistant with expected mortality from a population that size.
I'm sure more died as the war became chaotic but even assuming twice that died overall they were still far safer than Germans were in their cities.
None of the physical evidence is consistent with a deliberate extermination effort.
I had never looked into the Holocaust story until recently. I was shocked to discover that it is mostly a hoax. It is sickening to me that this lie is still being pushed on us, but I understand how useful and financially rewarding this story is to the chosenites.
Absolutely, it took me by surprise too. Mostly I was ashamed for never really questioning it to begin with, mostly due to peer pressure.
The real question is: when will there be no more 'holocaust' survivors still alive to talk about it? Already it's starting to stretch the imagination with the youngest possible survivors who could remember it being no less than 86.
They've been pushing the concept of "inherited trauma" for that reason. That way they can spin it out for as many generations as they like.
They'll have a hard time selling that.
I doubt it'll fly with the masses, but it's enough of an excuse for an occupation government to continue taxing goyim to pay for israel.
a good question is why didn't they kill them on the spot? They opted for trains and remote locations. Much money. At least, non-proponents of revisionism should have the honesty of looking at "slavery" rather than "extermination"
The argument is that they wanted to keep it a secret and because mass executions were traumatising the troops detailed to carry them out.
But the same people claim that German troops were openly bayonetting jewish infants for fun and using them for target practice, so who knows how that's supposed to work.
Even more curious are the extremely convoluted machines and buildings they supposedly constructed to kill them. We're told they did it because it was more efficient, but every horror story they came up with is provably less efficient than just using a bullet and many of them break the laws of physics.
You are correct, sir.
6,000,000÷365.
<<"It's horrible anti-semitism is rising so much, all that holocaust education and kids are still choosing evil"
Anti-semitism is rising BECAUSE of all this Holocaust Education!>>
That's it, right there. The most pure and perfect distillation of the situation. The ADL is single-handedly creating more anti-semitism than the Nazis could have ever dreamed of doing.
Were it not for 6 years of holocaust education... kids would not ask "why do we study this specific atrocity for 2 months a year for years on end when the Armenian and Rwandan genocide both happened and no one seems to care?"
Exactly! no one ever talks about them. Those both were recent and no one cares.
Which is why Germany exacted the toll they did from them and have been kept on their knees ever since , pity they lost. The Americans are not as smart as the Germans were and don't even know who their masters are. I have understood all of this for decades . Try telling you family members and acquaintances about it and see how far you get. The Holohoax has been the largest , most pervasive and successful propaganda campaign in history , so watcha gunna do about it?
and the present global crackdown on free speech in the five eyes is at root about containing this truth. Now that a percentage of the population are anti-semites , muslims that is , there is a need to prevent their intense dislike from spreading to the general populace. The thought of a populist leader rising through social media that would tell this story and open folk's eyes is the ultimate nightmare of the parasite. Think the old black and white movies of Adolf and a two hundred thousand strong crowd of all white all christian populace bent on getting free from the overlord. That is what haunts the elites more than any other image. It is part of the reason why Trump has been treated so harshly by the deep state. Even though he is completely in the Jewish Cabad it is not the Chabad faction that holds power Trumps Jews are pro Russia whilst the deep state Jews are pro Ukraine , that is why populate leaders of any stripe cannot be tolerated . The "leaders" must all be selected and approved of by the ruling class.
I'm part Jewish myself and I really don't like the Holocaust being the US civic religion.
Why do we have so many Holocaust museums here when it all happened over there? And why nothing for the much larger number of people killed by communists in Eastern Europe, China, and Cambodia?
Someone once pointed out that Nazis are frequently the bad guys in movies, but communists never are. I think that's true. At least I can't remember any movie where a communist is the bad guy.
Tortured for Christ is about the Soviet occupation of Romania, communism is the bad guy. In the original Red
Dawn (the only one worth watching or remembering) the invading force are commies. The Hunt for Red October, a Soviet is the good guy because he’s defecting against communism. Indiana Jones 4. Pretty much any movie about the Vietnam War. The Manchurian Candidate. A lot of spy movies are set during the Cold War and the Soviets are part of team bad guy in a most of them even if the ultimate big bad is some shadowy organization that isn’t particularly communist. The Death of Stalin. Invasion USA. Big Jim McClain. Red Scorpion.
Almost all the movies where soviets are the bad guys are set in the late cold war. And even then it's usually couched in a suggestion that they're a corrupted version of a virtuous original.
I can only think of one or two movies set prior to the 60s where they're the bad guys.
OK, there are some.
Rambo part 2
You should probably try to do something about it before some one else becomes mad enough to do something about it.
Speaking up is something.
Thanks for stating all this so clearly. I have had some similar thoughts but you have connected the dots much better than I could have. I am sick to death of their entire shtick: the takeover and perversion of our institutions, the censorship of our opinions, the assault on our Christian faith, the holocaust hoax, the boosterism toward sexual degeneracy and socialism…etc etc ad nauseam. How do we get this bloated tick off our backs and reclaim our birthright?
Everyone is allowed to say what they think. Everyone better do it before we are no longer allowed to.
If Israel is perpetrating a “genocide” they’re incredibly inept at it. The Palestinian population has increased 150% in the last 30 years.
THe allegation is a genocide started in Gaza, following oct 7th, no one alleges that the apartheid in the West Bank has amounted to genocide.
The accusation is the war in Gaza has the objective of killing civillians and ethnic cleansing as evidence by the fact 10% of the pre-war civilian population has died in under a year. A faster rate than was even alleged for the holocaust.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/8/gaza-toll-could-exceed-186000-lancet-study-says
1) clearly those death numbers are inflated, you’d be foolish to believe them
2) yes, Israel does want to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. It’s the only way ever to solve this problem permanently. Either they or the Palestinians must clear out. A time-tested and historically-successful method of ending ethnic strife.
But dollars to donuts they do it by economic constriction and quasi-forced migration, not mass murder. You’re a healthily cynical, realistic guy - let’s not indulge in the shrill leftist caterwauling of throwing around the word “genocide”, if only as a matter of self-respect.
Those death numbers line up really well with the trendline of what was being reported before the recording authorities in Gaza were themselves killed.
30k were dead in Gaza in January, then that number just creeped up even as the campaigns intensified and the diseases became more extreme, because the hospitals had all been bombed and no one was left to record the dead and report them.
The 200k figure included starvation and disease deaths... which seems very relevant when we compare the holocaust where everyone who died of starvation, lack of medical care, disease, etc. is considered the equivalent of direct murder.
The Nazi holocaust against Jewish citizens was horrible.
But they must have been really bad at it, no?
From the 1950s through 2010 or so (when they pretty much all died off), how often did you hear about a "Holocaust survivor" complete with tatooed number on his/her forearm, telling their tale in Miami Beach, or Cleveland, or LA, or New York?
There were thousands of these newspaper and TV stories, movies, documentaries. Constant stream of "Holocaust survivors" telling their stories. For every one who told their story in the newspaper, there must have been hundreds or thousands who didn't get in the news.
So, just in the USA, there were hundreds of thousands of "Holocaust survivors."
For such an efficient killing machine, the Nazis sure did leave a lot of "survivors," didn't they?
Or am I missing something?
Not only that, but a significant number of them claim to have been born in the maternity ward of the death camp. You heard that right, the so called death camp had a maternity ward where the group being exterminated were allowed to increase their numbers.
Most official counts have 3 million surviving Jews in Europe at the end of the war. It’s understandable that many would not want to remain in Europe all things considered. According to official records about 140,000 Holocaust survivors immigrated to the U.S. which seems like a reasonable number all things considered. If you believe the data, Europe had 9 million Jews before the war and 3 million after. Areas under Nazi control like Kiev Ukraine went from a Jewish population of over 200,000 to practically nonexistent. Nazis were damn efficient there. (Not that they limited their targets to Jews, they killed somewhere between 25-50% of the Roma in Europe too.) A nearly 70% reduction of Jews on the continent and 90%+ reduction in various occupied areas is pretty efficient.
I don't believe those numbers. Other figures suggest there were roughly 4 million jews before the war and 4.5 million after, but setting that aside, why did the death camps have maternity wards? Why adopt such inefficient and cartoonish methods of execution, like death-rollercoasters, electric vaporisation rooms and masturbation machines? And if we reject those stories as obvious fantasy then why are we believing the stories about gas chambers?
None of it adds up.
If the nazis had actually wanted to kill that many jews they would have done what the soviets did and shot them. But that would leave behind enormous mass graves that could be exhumed and verified. Instead we have a story that's highly improbably but conveniently leaves behind no physical evidence. We just have to take their word for it.
Ok.
The efficient killing operation, rounded up Jews, shipped them to camps, gassed them, and burned their bodies.
Why were they tatooing numbers on them?
In such an efficient operation, in a country crippled by war-time shortages, why house the intended slaughter victims for even one night?
Communists rounded up their 20 million victims, interrogated them, and shot them in the back of the head in the basement, usually in short order.
Most people killed in the Holocaust were not tattooed, they died in ghettos or were shot or gassed. Tattooing was the practice in camps that selected some of the arrivals for slave labour, most notably Auschwitz. Most were gassed on arrival sans tattoo. Other camps, like Treblinka, Sobibor and Belcec, were purely death camps. Those three are far less famous because almost nobody survived them, although there is extensive witness testimony and Deutsche Reichsbahn documentary evidence of their operations. Thousands of people survived Auschwitz, with their tattoos, because it was a combination extermination and labour camp that was liberated while it was still in operation. The Nazis had set themselves a target of 11 million that they didn’t have time to reach before they were defeated, and so there were actually millions of Jews who survived the Nazi regime in one way or another, mostly outside of the camp system, and of course without tattoos.
> Those three are far less famous because almost nobody survived them
All three have many alleged survivors. Some of them claim to have escaped the gas chamber by faking illness and going to the infirmary instead or moonwalking back out under the guards noses (yes seriously).
All I can conclude is that if there was an extermination effort it was overseen by the most incompetent people ever to walk the earth.
About 167 between them to Auschwitz’s thousands of survivors, and to the about two million who were gassed there. So, almost nobody. Silly anecdotes repeated by Holocaust deniers are a red herring and they always will be, like the Piltdown Man to creationists.
Most of our "evidence" for the holocaust is coming from the people telling these silly anecdotes. If they're ruled out then there isn't much left.
The Nazis shot plenty too. During the occupation of Kiev they shot around 100,000 people (of various backgrounds) and used a ravine as a mass grave although ultimately most of those bodies were burned. Perhaps there was concern that while many people were fine with their neighbors being deported they would be less fine with them being shot. So they were moved away from potentially sympathetic neighbors prior to being killed.
Historically there are a variety of reasons to take prisoners; slave labor, as insurance against the use of certain weapons or tactics, for exchange for their own prisoners, or to use as pressure during negotiations with enemy parties. So you take a bunch of people captive. You ship them off so their neighbors think they are just going somewhere else. Then you kill those incapable of work and use the rest as slave labor. You try and feed and clothe them just enough to keep them alive and when shortages come they are the first to get shorted . Those who get too sick, cause problems, or otherwise are a burden also get killed. Maybe then when the end is near you try to destroy all the evidence. If you have prisoners and slaves you want to keep track of them and numbers are the most efficient way to do that.
The current mythos surrounding the camps is inaccurate but the Nazis still killed a hell of a lot of people both inside and outside the camps.
Because the efficient killing machine was only in place for 18 months. The actual death (extermination) camps ran mid-1942 to the end of 1943. Then it was slowly starved slave labor in the camps. But that's not as dramatic as "Grandpa stopped the Nazis from gassing people!"
Why would they go to all that effort setting up an extermination camp just to shut it down again almost immediately after?
And that creates even more plot holes given that, even if we assume the ovens worked constantly for the entire duration of the war, they still didn't have enough time to cremate all the bodies alleged to have been burned.
There were those opponents of the camps being constructed, saying the German war effort needed the labor. It took about 18 months to prove them right.
And they didn't cremate 6 million bodies as is often implied, less than a 1/3 of that at most. Those killed by the Eistanzgruppen were buried in mass graves, as were those who killed before Barbarossa.
Where are these "mass graves" located? By your calculations there should be 4 million bodies buried somewhere. That's a LOT of skeletons no one has found.
Probably "only" 4 million killed. Your typical mass graves is maybe a few dozen people. So they're scattered around, and a lot not found or reused by the Soviets.
There’s at least one outside Kiev.
I couldn’t find any information on mass graves around Kiev attributed to Germans/holocaust although there were some sites related to Soviet/Russia. Can you be more specific?
So they shipped them out to these death camps to be killed, then for some reason shipped the bodies even further to be buried?
That does not make sense. It's a massive waste of resources they did not have.
Even two million cremations is impossible in 18 months, that's over 150 bodies per hour assuming they were working around the clock. No mass graves have been found on that scale.
And why would it help them to shut down the camps *after* they had been constructed?
Like I posted l, labor shortages. Get some uniforms made by people who are slowly starving to death is better than killing quick, and not getting the uniforms.
So they were absolutely dedicated to eradicating these people they saw as an existential threat, but they stopped because they couldn't find enough people to sew uniforms? Please.
And you still have to account for the conspicuous absence of four million bodies and their cremation ovens breaking the laws of physics to dispose of the other two million.
Haha, you just made this up on the fly, didn't you? That is a completely new version of what supposedly happened.
Let's hear what evidence, apart from eyewitness accounts, there actually is for that claim.
https://odysee.com/@Qwinten:b/David-Irving-in-the-single-hardest-Holocaust-rant-I%E2%80%99ve-ever-watched:0
/Pol/s razor: if it was as bad as they say it was, why do they treat western Europeans so badly? Hundreds of Thousands of American kids died in liberating the Jews from the camps, why do they seem to despise American white people? Alternatively, if it wasn't as bad as they said, and they've been lying now for over 60 years... does that not bring into question whether or not removal was, in fact, necessary?
The forthcoming fireworks should be interesting.
So you are saying we need more holocaust education? Perhaps give it a more positive slant this time around, pointing out the many benefits of a good old fashioned ethnic cleansing.
Yes the level of indoctrination has slipped as media has become more diverse. However the new indoctrination programs will not succeed like in the past because of the media diversity and the time factor. I was indoctrinated in the fifties by the Readers Digest . That was one of the three media we kids had. One was the nightly news on the radio , the Reader's Digest my father had subscribed to.and comic books which were mostly WW 2 stories. The Holohoax was still relatively fresh and new , the war had only been over for ten years and was very real for us,. Contrast that to day where the kids know nothing about history and don't care or want to know and the media field is so high , so extensive that it is mind boggling. So the new propaganda programs will have limited effect. Hence the need to turn the screws on all media that is not following the narrative of the parasite.
Amen!
Well, this is a refreshing take. I have another spin. I am Jewish and for the sake of argument, we own you, so get over it. However. Jews have a somewhat unique demographic issue. While the fastest growing religion in the USA is "None," Jews marry later, intermarry and have fewer children. Except ultra-orthodox, many of whom believe that the state of Israel cannot come into existence before the arrival of the Messiah. The first time. Jesus screwed up if he has to come back to Maggido and fight for a thousand years. Sounds like the Magic Plates or every other religion's bullshit, but I digress. That doesn't prevent a million or three from living there and sucking off the teat of the Israeli welfare state. They have seven plus kids. In 100 years, there will still be six million Jews in the US. 90% will be Orthodox, who mainly want to live in their shtetels, like Monsey, run the school board and impose their will on everyone else, just like everyone else.
Now, on to my point. There's an old saying that there's no business like Shoah business. Ask Kate Winslet in Ricky Gervais' hilarious show, "Extras." The point I make is that nobody gives a shit about the holocaust, and no Jew ever moved anywhere because they have a huge museum dedicated to killing of Jews. That's a WOFTAM. Gentiles hate us as Kulakski shows. If Jews really want to survive, they should quit begging Gentiles for money for museums and "education" because we'd be in the ovens in a New York Minute if some (many) people got their way. That money should be used to build day schools, take kids to Israel, a shitty 8,000 sq/mi country that is the source of all evil in the world, ask any ZH reader.
Islam wants to kill you too, or force you to convert, live as Dhimmi, pay Jizyat and live as second class wards of the state. You are Kuffir and believe or die. watch Germany, France, England, Sweden, and Italy implode when their Muslim population reaches about 20%. Stay tuned. These idiots protesting on campuses will all be gang raped and subjugated when Allah really comes into their lives. And yours.
Seriously a lot of this anti semitism is a stupidity Europe and now the US can’t afford. I’m not Jewish but it’s not the white, smart, family oriented migrants in the US that worry me - even if like any newcomer some integrate within middle management & above government ranks. They are playing a game written by gentile Europeans anyways. If you aren’t libertarian for starters you probably ought to pipe down on who is in the bureaucratic class. But on an ethnic level, it’s the ones with half the IQ, taught that we are all infidels that concern me.
No one is safe until this myth is the object of ridicule the world over.
I grew up in the 80s; by then the Holocaust mythology was already well under way, but all we had was Anne Frank. (Maus and Night were new, not taught yet.) You could also openly say at that time, “This story sounds, like, totally fake.”
Holy hell, by the time my children got to their Legends of the Holocaust lessons, it had really exploded into an entire grievance industry. And nobody was allowed to question any of it—in a school and town completely devoid of people likely to be offended by the questioning of it.
And now WWII itself has become “Holocaust as the Main Character.”
This and other recent events are causing me to ask what in the hell is going on. Something seriously weird is afoot.
I have PTSD (ok not really) from being forced to read Holocaust books in school which it turns out were full of lies. So when they wanted my kids to read and watch even worse Holocaust lies in school, I pulled them out and explained why. The school staff didn’t even realise they were peddling lies as facts. They were reassuringly embarrassed.
They have definitely pushed WAY too hard with the grievance narrative. All it takes is a reasonable look at history for even a highschool kid to say "but why do we listen to them when the Armenian and Bolshevik ethnic cleansings took place?" What's bizarre is how they get progressively more extreme in their claims to the point of holocoasters and looney toons shotguns. It's a constant one-upsmanship to see what bizarre yarn they can spin and have believed. The ultimate result is that the general population, including the progressives, have turned on the Jewish people across the West. Suppressing the people won't prevent them from hating you, it'll just make them do it quietly. A lot of Jewish individuals who are tuned in seem to be making egress plans as the West is not likely to be a safe place for them in a generation or two.